00:00 — A book opens a difficult conversation
Nadav Nishri introduces Keren Wilbach, a children’s-book author and a coach supporting separation and growth. He opens with a scene in which parents explain that they will live apart while continuing to love their child. The conversation moves between speaking with children and supporting an overwhelmed parent. The original recording is Hebrew. This detailed edited guide follows their experiences, not a universal script or a clinical treatment programme.
Original episode audio in Hebrew
Watch the original episode (Hebrew)
01:19 — Three daughters and a book written for families
Keren says her divorce was almost nine years earlier, when she had three young daughters: two-year-old twins and a five-year-old. Her eldest kept asking questions while Keren herself had little emotional capacity. She looked for a book that could help her read and talk with the child. Writing was easier than publishing and feeling ready to share herself. The book grew from real questions, not the assumption that reading alone resolves distress.
02:28 — Guilt and feeling passed between homes
Her eldest wondered whether a remark made when her parents kissed had caused the divorce. Another question described moving between parents as being passed like a parcel. Keren realised that adult explanations had missed the child’s guilt and uncertainty about days in each home. Explain that adult decisions are not the child’s fault, describe practical arrangements and keep listening. Children did not choose the separation and should not be made responsible for repairing it.
04:14 — Parents and children begin at different times
Parents may have thought about separation for months or years before the announcement. Children encounter the information at the beginning of their own adjustment, not at the adults’ finishing point. Keren challenges expecting quick understanding after a conversation on the sofa. Make room for repeated questions, different reactions and later feelings; an apparently quiet response does not prove indifference. Keep explanations age-appropriate and support familiar routines rather than chase a perfect sentence.
05:22 — Choosing conduct without denying pain
Keren argues for avoiding revenge, incitement and making children witnesses to adult grievances. Nadav pushes back on easy optimism: someone currently overwhelmed may want the children to know what happened, lean on them or retaliate. Keren says she did not want to tell her daughters what their father had done, while acknowledging how crushed she felt. This is not a demand to hide genuine safety concerns or endure abuse; adults need appropriate support outside the child’s role.
08:30 — The turning point and seeking help
She recalls roughly four early months of depression as she describes it, poor eating and sleep, staying in bed and intense anxiety attacks. Her five-year-old’s observation to her grandmother that her mother cried and smoked became a turning point. Keren sought psychological help and also tried holistic approaches, Watsu, a medium and card reading. These are her experiences, not equivalent proven treatments. Depression is not weakness or something solved by willpower; significant symptoms deserve qualified care.
10:17 — An unexpected question in a café
One younger daughter, about six months to a year later, saw a couple in a café and wished for mother and father together. Keren was caught unprepared. She recognised the wish and explained that their family now had two homes and that the adults remained the children’s parents. Validation did not mean promising reunion. A child can revisit a question unexpectedly; parents can listen again without sharing blame or pretending the child must welcome the change.
12:00 — The first weekend without the children
Keren describes the first Shabbat without the children as a frightening, unfamiliar silence, even though she normally enjoyed solitude. She initially surrounded herself with friends. A weekend alone with the children could feel overwhelming too, bringing anger that the other parent was absent, despite previous experience managing alone. These are different forms of loneliness, not evidence of parental failure. Her confidence developed gradually, not on a prescribed timetable.
13:41 — Activity, compassion and useful company
She describes therapy, workshops and finding activities instead of withdrawing completely, while allowing moments of self-compassion. Nadav distinguishes people who pity from those who stay, love and understand without fuelling a fight. Keren later came to enjoy some child-free time. That is her trajectory, not a promise that every painful experience becomes enjoyable. Useful company can help a parent rest and recover without requiring constant productivity or suppressing grief.
14:57 — Wanting it all to stop, amid competing advice
Keren says she initially wanted only to stop the divorce, not become a pioneer among friends. Around her were anxious suggestions about filing, demands, withholding and revenge; she also recalls a friend telling her former partner not to give her anything. She thinks some advice comes from concern, while Nadav challenges whether pushing loved ones into conflict is loving. Separate emotional support from informed professional advice; neither pressure to retaliate nor pressure to waive rights is care.
18:27 — Moving out is not a simple legal slogan
They discuss a woman frightened by advice after leaving the shared home. Nadav stresses ownership recorded in both names and mentions nesting as an alternative to a pressure cooker. Do not infer that moving out automatically forfeits ownership, or that it can have no legal consequences. Registration, agreements, occupation, children and applicable law require individual advice. Nesting is one possible arrangement when workable and safe, not a requirement to keep sharing space or delay urgent protection.
20:00 — Private pain and words children hear
Keren recalls slowly releasing the wish for everyone to know who was right; working in news, she found the gossip uncomfortable but temporary. Nadav describes a parent witnessing hurtful words seem to stick to the children like a scar. It is an image of the impact of adult conflict, not a diagnosis or proof of irreversible damage from every mistake. Keep adult accusations private, acknowledge mistakes and repair; necessary information about safety should be handled appropriately.
21:48 — Identity, time together and a first family trip
Nadav discusses social expectations linking women’s identity to motherhood and the difficulty of time apart; this is not a claim that every woman struggles more than every man. Keren describes more focused time and returning with renewed energy. She recalls her first trip abroad with the girls, to Thailand at Passover, on tickets bought before the war; Nadav recalls his own trip with his daughters. These are personal examples of growing confidence, not a duty to travel or proof of easy recovery.
25:18 — Responsibility without blaming the harmed person
Keren says she once assigned 80% of blame to her former husband and 20% to herself, then found recognising her own part gave her agency and self-worth. She speaks of a gradual personal shift, not a reliable formula for every breakup. Responsibility for one’s next choices does not make a person responsible for someone else’s abuse. Feeling victimised may reflect real harm; distress is not a moral failure, and neither equal blame nor a duty to forgive follows.
27:57 — The caller, legal advice and wider needs
Nadav recalls taking a call during an Amsterdam gathering with siblings after about 20 years, with one absent because of military service. A parent described years of proceedings and poor communication. Nadav criticised adversarial letters while asking for dialogue. Independent advice, protective applications and mediation can coexist; do not abandon a case or deadlines on this account. His half-and-half property shorthand is not a complete rule: assets, agreements, exceptions and jurisdiction matter alongside housing, finances, stability and mental well-being.
29:55 — Forgiveness as a personal possibility
Keren speaks about forgiving herself and recognising times she had diminished her own needs; Nadav connects forgiveness with releasing a burden, mentioning Yom Kippur. These are personal reflections. Another person’s harmful behaviour is not caused by the victim’s lack of self-respect. No apology, forgiveness, reconciliation or contact is owed as a condition of healing. Support can help someone recover a voice and boundaries without denying what happened.
32:27 — A protected room and two homes that belong to children
During the war one daughter wanted to sleep at her father’s because he had a protected room. Keren initially felt the emotional sting, then arranged daytime time together and took her there at night; the parents lived nearby. She also sat with him, his wife and their children. They describe both homes as belonging to the children, not possessions being fought over. Safety and practical need guided this family; friendly visits or equal access are not required where unsafe.
34:12 — Small steps, grief and rebuilding
Keren allows mourning and urges help from supportive people, remembering oneself and taking small steps rather than grand gestures. They use pregnancy and birth as images of rebuilding oneself; the Hebrew wordplay is a metaphor, not a universal linguistic or psychological explanation. Avoid acts later regretted before children or the other parent. Begin with shared aims for safety and workable family life, then individual needs. Growth need not happen immediately, and sadness can remain part of the process.
36:48 — Criticism of escalation is not a ban on protection
They criticise attempts to impoverish the other parent and conflict pursued for revenge, while explicitly recognising excellent lawyers who support mediation. Their criticism does not prove that all lawyers or pleadings exist to inflame people. Legal rights and protective proceedings remain important. The recording’s claim that child killings stopped after mediation grew is unsupported and must not be treated as fact. Mediation cannot guarantee safety, prevent every crime or ensure that children emerge unharmed or strengthened.
42:12 — Building trust through practical flexibility
They distinguish the ended couple relationship from practical parenting and the possibility of earning trust through dependable conduct. Illness, war or changed plans can require help; rigid refusal to swap a Monday or Wednesday can harm everyday cooperation. Keren and her former partner find flexibility useful. Giving does not guarantee reciprocity or impose unlimited availability. Agree clear arrangements, boundaries and a way to handle disagreements; functional cooperation can be enough without close friendship.
43:36 — Holidays, relatives and travel arrangements
Keren appreciates her former husband Dror’s flexibility over holidays and continuing contact with his parents; Nadav also values former family ties. They question automatically counting every extra day when one parent travels, while recognising people can agree how to balance time. Do not assume all families can treat differences as negligible. International travel may require consent or legal permission depending on the case. Plan care, costs, notice and any necessary authorisation rather than use a child as leverage.
45:05 — Her work now and the closing invitation
Keren now wants to support people navigating separation, drawing on her own long and difficult path. Nadav recognises the contribution of his team and learning through mistakes, and they return to seeing the child, oneself and the other parent. They ask listeners to share useful information and mention a mother who sent an episode to her daughter out of concern for grandchildren. The farewell ends at 48:00. Hope is offered through support and practical choices, not a guaranteed outcome.
Read the original Hebrew episode page
Further guidance
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