01:11 — “I did everything” and “you were not there”
Nadav Nishri speaks with clinical psychologist, couples therapist, rabbi and masculinity researcher Hananel Ross. The original audio is Hebrew. Nadav opens with an Elizabeth Gilbert passage, paraphrased here: a man worked two jobs as an expression of love while his wife felt emotionally alone. Hananel wants mutual understanding, not only men understanding themselves: she may miss affection expressed through sacrifice, while he may miss her need for listening and presence. Neither perspective automatically proves malice or absence of love.
Original episode audio in Hebrew
Watch the original episode in Hebrew
06:13 — A social transition with an unfinished second half
Hananel argues that women entering paid work was not matched by equal institutional support for men’s caregiving. He mentions the humorous group names “Imperfect Dad” and “The One Who Is Right”; these are examples, not verified audience rankings or descriptions of every parent. His crying-baby example shows how taking over after another twenty minutes may prevent a father learning, although the mother may mean well. Feeling valued at work but ineffective at home can leave both lonely.
07:44 — Caregiving is learned, and leave arrangements need checking
Nadav asks whether bonding happens only after birth and mothers simply know by instinct. Hananel corrects him: maternal connection may begin during pregnancy, while responding to a baby also involves repeated work and learning. Fathers need opportunities to learn too. Their discussion of five days and employers offering five or six months describes particular leave arrangements at the time, not all current Israeli entitlements. National Insurance also provides conditional routes for fathers’ parental benefits; check eligibility and employment terms rather than assume a blanket absence of leave.
09:53 — The maintenance example is not an automatic calculation
Nadav invokes Israeli case 919/15 as a historical example of social change: equal parenting time and equal incomes, he says, can support sharing child costs rather than one-way payments. Do not turn that shorthand into “equal time always means zero support”. Applicable law, children’s ages and needs, resources, residence-related and other expenses and the particular case matter. Obtain individual advice; the discussion does not establish a rule for every family, religion or country.
11:17 — The guest’s own parenting and the cultural “man-meter”
At recording, Hananel describes three children, the oldest eight, another starting first grade and the youngest two; his wife Smadar was a medical resident and he often cared for them. He works with Emotionally Focused Therapy. His cultural “man-meter” concerns providing, protecting, emotional steadiness and independence, not a validated test of personal worth. War can reinforce those roles but also provoke reassessment; Nadav recalls a reservist saying that fearing death made him decide these were not the life choices he wanted.
14:28 — The prince is not a plan for married life
Nadav credits his wife Noga with noticing that film princesses have varied personalities while the prince may merely be handsome, wealthy and well-born. Falling in love is not a complete plan for life with children; his two-to-three-year fading-romance remark is not a universal biological deadline. Hananel asks what originally brought a couple together to recover a more generous view. Nadav says mediation usually looks forward; therapy may explore the past. They question models from films, television and pornography rather than offer one compulsory model of manhood.
19:01 — Build an alternative, not only a list of prohibitions
Hananel discusses learning from an absent father, parental drinking or violence. Describing how force may produce short-term compliance is not endorsing it. He recalls a mother who, told not to hit children, felt without tools and left for three days: an illustration of needing positive alternatives, not approval of abandonment. Ask what father you want to become and what your upbringing gave or cost you. Early years matter, but the brain and personality are not fixed at age six or seven; development and learning continue.
22:38 — The couple relationship can end; parenting continues
Hananel distinguishes the romantic and parental subsystems involving the same adults. Separation changes one without automatically ending the other. Bar and bat mitzvah celebrations and later life keep parents connected beyond eighteen; that is a relational observation, not a legal ruling about support duration. Nadav especially appreciates parents who arrive furious yet choose to build something different. In New Partnership, define common future aims first, then individual needs; anger may be expressed within boundaries and friendship is not compulsory.
24:41 — Individual fathers do not fit one schedule or rulebook
Nadav describes disputes over six/eight versus seven/seven nights, support for an adult child, bedtime, food and screen rules. Some fathers accept detailed instructions; others experience them as a denial of equal parenting status. He asks what fits these people rather than prescribing either extreme. Practical cooperation and legal obligations need separate, informed consideration. Hananel emphasises the variety of actual individuals: a description of society cannot replace seeing the person in front of you.
26:11 — Losing a role can feel like losing yourself
Hananel’s reference to the “middle sixty percent” illustrates talking about social patterns; it is not measured episode research. A long marriage may occupy much adult life, so separation can disrupt provider, protector and partner identities. He discusses men avoiding emotional or physical help, linked to norms of self-reliance, without claiming every man does so. Nadav recalls sacrificed career dreams and a factory-worker song by Meir Ariel, also performed by Shaanan Street; no lyrics are reproduced. Recognition of sacrifice does not oblige a partner to remain.
30:41 — Make room for heartbreak without policing masculinity
Hananel discusses a book about heartbroken men and criticises a double standard: a broken woman is still seen as a woman, while a broken man is told he is no longer a man. This is a stereotype he challenges, not his judgment. He asks why there is so little room for months of grief. Nadav likens divorce to mourning while the former partner remains present discussing children and money. The metaphor does not make the person dead or set a recovery timetable; “move on” can miss profound loss.
33:21 — Longing, emotional language and earlier joint choices
Nadav says a divorced man may seek warmth and closeness, not only sex, particularly where his partner had been his emotional voice. Hananel notes limits of generalisation rather than supplying a prevalence figure. They discuss unequal acceptance of a year at home after birth for mother versus father, and resentment about a lower-income caregiving role at divorce. Nadav reminds the man that the earlier division may have been jointly accepted, even silently. Social expectations of marriage around thirty or forty can compound identity pain; they do not define everyone’s success.
36:55 — Anger feels powerful, but the speakers disagree about defence
Hananel describes anger and outward blame as possible ways out of helplessness. Some retaliation is destructive; he also says that a determined aggressor can create a conflict alone and that failing to defend oneself may mean being trampled. Nadav explicitly answers, “I don’t accept that.” This disagreement is essential. Neither describing anger nor recognising threat authorises violence; deciding how to protect oneself requires attention to the actual situation rather than a slogan about either always fighting or never defending.
37:51 — Nadav’s alternative, and the limits of a general example
Nadav contrasts spending 100,000–200,000 shekels on each side’s aggressive representation with a lawyer who responds substantively without personal attacks. He invokes the mother in Solomon’s judgment stepping back. When Hananel asks whether that might mean giving up custody, Nadav says yes as a possible choice; he also mentions lost overnights or another 1,000 shekels monthly, while saying he is not deciding what is right for everyone. These are his difficult examples, not advice to surrender contact, safety or rights. Keep appropriate legal protection and independent advice; no parent can guarantee cooperation or future recognition by yielding.
42:09 — Do not diagnose an absent person from a short story
Nadav calls for therapists to engage with relational conflict rather than automatically pass it to lawyers. Hananel describes five years of study and four of supervised training; these are his account, not a universal licensing rule. They reject quick labels such as psychopath or narcissist based on a brief account. Legal advice and clinical assessment have distinct roles. Nadav accepts the feeling of anger but rejects aggression and violence as a way to run the separation.
44:10 — Children and the body can open an emotional conversation
Hananel recalls an EFT teacher reaching a seemingly emotionally disconnected special-forces man by asking about his son; the man cried. It is an anecdote, not a technique guaranteed to work for everyone. He suggests noticing bodily cues, smiles, embarrassment or eye-rolling, without treating a gesture as an infallible diagnosis. Cooking, buying something especially for someone and providing can express care; words can still help. The task is both learning to hear caring actions and helping men say what they feel, not making children responsible for a parent’s emotions.
46:24 — Pausing is also an act of courage
Hananel expresses sympathy and warns against repeatedly escaping into alcohol, substances or numbing behaviour. His mention of two drinks in an exceptional crisis is not health advice or a safe-drinking limit. He uses an injured soldier who has lost legs as an analogy for adapting to a changed reality, not equating divorce and disability. Nadav adds that personal responsibility may still matter. Pause, notice anger, choose a response and seek support; acknowledging helplessness need not mean surrendering agency.
50:11 — Resources improve possibilities, not certainty
Hananel explicitly rejects an absolute promise that everything will end well. Emotional support, trusted relationships and a community aligned with one’s values may help sustain the work; a new marriage can change the arrangement again. Nadav mentions therapy, physical activity and stress reduction, and control over one’s own home rather than the former shared home. They discuss trying again after setbacks, even using ten difficult years of dating as an example. Forty-to-fifty more years at age forty is hopeful rhetoric, not a lifespan guarantee or proof persistence always succeeds.
53:33 — Nadav’s “ask” tattoo and his own reconstruction
Nadav shares his divorce experience: crying, then deciding to work with his daughters’ mother as a partner. His description of choosing friendship is his own story, not a requirement for other parents. He describes heartbreak as a heart expanding and looks back proudly seven or eight years later. His tattoo “ask” reminds him to keep examining where he stands and what is right for him. These are personal metaphors of growth, not a promise that every painful separation improves life.
55:37 — The course and the closing invitation
Hananel describes a recorded course, “Being a Man in the World”, attended by roughly sixty–seventy men and women. Topics include fatherhood and being a son, sexuality and pornography, two lessons on emotions, power and the protector role, illustrated with media. His point is to understand strengths and costs rather than merely complain about society; availability must be checked with him. He closes with an idea attributed to John Gottman: express the wish beneath a complaint so others can understand it. The episode invites support and connection, not one correct masculinity or a guaranteed outcome.
Israeli National Insurance: parental benefits for fathers
WHO: masculinity and seeking mental-health support