A detailed translated guide to Nadav Nishri’s conversation with Tom Wagner, introduced as head of the Abrahamic Movement and author of The Abrahamic Revolution. The original recording is in Hebrew.
00:00 — A voice that builds hope
Nadav discovered Tom’s writing through social media and kept reading because it offered named people and conversations from the Arab and Muslim worlds, rather than only images of an enemy. He invites Tom to explain what he calls the Abrahamic Revolution.
Tom describes a background in communications, military coordination and liaison, and work as a spokesperson for the Peres Center for Peace. Long-standing regional relationships helped him convene conversations after 7 October. His book, he says, draws on those exchanges with religious and secular participants, not only his own thoughts.
01:10 — Shared identity as a bridge
Tom uses European integration as an analogy: political agreements were accompanied by cultural, sporting, youth and civic connections that encouraged people to imagine a shared future. He proposes an Abrahamic layer of identity linking Jewish, Muslim and Christian traditions without requiring people to abandon their existing identities.
The family metaphor is central to his argument. Seeing another group as related may change how a disagreement is approached. This is his proposed framework for cooperation, not a historical proof that every regional community understands itself in the same way.
09:46 — Dialogue before agreement
Tom worries that peace has become identified with one political programme. He openly rejects the two-state model and argues for another approach; that is his political position, rather than a neutral conclusion of mediation.
His broader practical point is that dialogue cannot wait until all conditions are agreed. Governments also have to consider what their publics will accept. Direct contact between ordinary people can help create a social foundation for cooperation, while political and security disagreements remain real.
14:16 — Reading religious language for connection
Tom explains how he uses his reading of Quranic passages about Moses, the land and the People of the Book to argue for recognition of Jewish belonging and more respectful conversation. He contrasts this with treating Islam only as an inaccessible source of hostility.
These are Tom’s interpretations of religious texts, not an uncontested position of all Muslims or a legal determination of territorial rights. His recollection of cultural-sensitivity training also underlines the value of learning how another person understands a gesture, a word or a tradition.
17:54 — Refusing collective blame
The speakers challenge the claim that there are no innocent people in Gaza. Tom argues that visible crowds and violent actors do not show everyone, including those who stay home in fear or oppose Hamas. He describes hearing accounts from such people.
Nadav acknowledges trauma and the wish for security while asking what it means to seek safety rather than destruction of another population. The discussion asks listeners to recognise suffering without making all members of a group responsible for the acts shown in the news.
21:35 — Looking outside the familiar feed
One practical example is reading Arabic-language Israeli Foreign Ministry pages, using translation to understand comments and encountering questions as well as hostility. Tom suggests that some people write because they lack another place to ask.
This is an example of a channel for contact, not an instruction to confront every hostile stranger. The underlying invitation is to broaden the information one receives, check understanding and allow conversation to become more than competing headlines.
23:33 — A political proposal and the risks of speaking
Tom calls political Abrahamism an emerging alternative to political Islam. He wants Jews, Muslims and Christians to be able to share a regional political framework. His descriptions of movements and media are his analysis, not a classification every participant in the region accepts.
He also describes barriers facing people who advocate contact: official restrictions, intimidation and threats. In his account, an Egyptian initiative was told to stop its activity. Willingness to speak publicly cannot therefore be assumed, and absence from a visible platform does not mean absence of interest.
28:03 — Building an infrastructure for contact
Tom describes the Middle East Center as a knowledge platform offering conversations, online meetings and bilateral WhatsApp groups connecting Israelis with people in places such as Iran, Lebanon and Iraq. He also mentions public YouTube and Telegram material.
The range includes religious and ethnic minorities, not a single interchangeable “Arab voice”. These are activities described during the recording; their role in the episode is to show what a structure for repeated contact might look like, rather than promise current access or membership benefits.
29:56 — Asking what people want after the argument
Nadav recalls listening to opposing demonstrators near his home. Repeatedly asking “and then what?” moved one conversation from threats towards a desired future. He connects that experience to mediation: finding a shared purpose first creates a foundation for discussing different routes.
He also recalls disappointment with an organised dialogue visit where meals and appearances displaced discussion. His response is personal initiative, including making mediation knowledge accessible in other languages. He is not asking listeners to accept a territorial proposal before they talk.
33:41 — Books written with regional partners
Tom describes The Abrahamic Revolution and a planned sequence of co-written books. Union of Believers, with a Palestinian collaborator, explores his reading of “Muslim” as a broader religious term and the connections he sees among monotheistic traditions.
He explicitly says the proposal does not require Jews to change their religious practice or accept Muhammad. It is a reinterpretation of shared language directed towards another audience. Similarities do not make the religions identical, and readers need not adopt the terminology to understand the invitation to dialogue.
38:43 — More than one story can form a bridge
Other books discussed include Cyrus Accords, developed with an Iranian collaborator, and Arab Zionism, associated with a Syrian interlocutor. Tom turns to Cyrus-related, Phoenician and other narratives because not everyone in the region identifies with an Abrahamic family story.
These are the narratives and proposed collaborations he describes, not blanket claims about how all Iranians, Lebanese Christians or other populations identify. Earlier, he clarifies that the Syrian “government in exile” designation refers to an organisation, not a recognised government office.
42:57 — The children who look through the wall
Nadav recalls a story in which generations enlarge a wall and repeat frightening tales about those behind it, until children look through and find other children. The image expresses his wish to meet people before accepting inherited labels.
Tom adds that hostile images can persist when people do not hear directly what others actually want. Zoom, social media and translation tools can make contact possible, but human support may still be needed to take the first step. A tool does not automatically create trust.
49:03 — Civic work, enterprise and shared opportunity
Tom describes plans for a wider Abrahamic movement, fundraising and an Arabic-language video channel presenting voices seeking coexistence. Nadav connects the idea to his own international mediation work and business ambitions: earning a living and doing social good can reinforce one another. His predictions about future regional peace are hopes, not a timetable.
In the closing exchange, Tom offers the idea of connecting interested entrepreneurs through existing relationships. The episode’s practical direction is to combine civic organisations, individual initiative and business cooperation. None replaces the others or guarantees success. It begins with curiosity, a shared purpose and the willingness to build a relationship before demanding the whole answer.
Listen to episode 155
Original Hebrew audio and video. The text is an edited episode guide, not a verbatim transcript or an English recording.